through higher premiums and taxes. at the time we are receiving care, we have this illusion that someone else is paying for t even if we try, do a diligent job of trying to understand what things cost, we get these pricing schedules which are incomprehensible. >> you have been out spoken on how it is the biggest driver of rising healthcareh health insurance premiums but the outrageous costs have been known for years. so why hasn't the outrage over this taken us anywhere? >> it's hard to understand. we used to -- we used to say that healthcare costs couldn't rise above 10% of gdp. people would be outraged. now, it's about 18% and seems like it's just going higher. i really think that the fundamental issue is that really, people have believed that someone else is paying for their healthcare raernling themselves. this is the great illusion of healthcare, that we are not paying for it. >> is that illusion going to get worse under alabamacare? the president is making a renewed push and stressing costs. let's listen to what